Welcome to Retail Checks and Balances, a podcast that takes you behind the scenes of the bustling world of commerce and culinary delights to help you grow your business and win. Join us as we explore the fascinating stories, trends, and challenges that shape the retail and hospitality industry, from cozy corner cafes to sprawling shopping malls and everything in between. And now, here's your host, Kevin Okay, welcome again to Retail Checks and Balances. Today we've got the beautiful Elizabeth Greene from jungla.com. She's the co-founder and she's going to tell us all about what this company does. Elizabeth, Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. So in a nutshell, we're an Amazon ads agency. So what does that mean? We help brands, particularly who are selling on the Amazon platform. Amazon US is probably the biggest marketplace, but we definitely handle all marketplaces, Canada, UK, Mexico, all across the EU. So a wide span there. And we focus on leveraging there. Amazon ads has a direct correlation with sales growth on the Amazon platform. There's some interesting nuances. Think of it like before when you could like say leverage ads to rank higher in Google. Obviously Google took away that because it was not within their best interest. It made a horrible search environment for their users. That's not actually the case in Amazon. There is a way that they've figured out that they can allow you to get better organic placements if you leverage advertising, and it's not actually going to hurt their customer experience. So because of that, ads become a You know, typical platforms, if you're using Xamena ads, TikTok ads, any other kind of ads, you know, it is obviously helpful in growing your sales, but you're looking at more like, say, new-to-brand customers, where not only do you get that benefit if you're running Amazon ads on the platform, again, providing you're selling on that platform, you actually can influence your organic placements as well. So ends up being quite lucrative if you know how to do it well. And of course, like any other ad type, if you don't know what you're doing, you can lose a lot So tell me a little about your expertise and Yeah, definitely. So we've been doing this like 6 or 7 years now, working with brands from 6 figures all the way up to 8 figures and beyond. Again, just really helping them grow as we typically partner with brands who are really looking at Amazon ads as a growth lover. Most times, either if the say founder might be directly involved and maybe they like ads, but they're like at some point, you got to actually have a business and not just a job. So they're looking to outsource to somebody who's going to care as much as they do. Or you also have brands where they're like, Hey, look, they come into it from the get. I don't really understand this whole beast. I know it's a good lover for growth. I need somebody who I can trust to run it. So trust is a really big factor, obviously, you know, if you're handing over ad budgets to somebody, you want to make sure it's deployed strategically by somebody who like knows what the heck they're doing. But then also somebody you can trust to do it in a way that's going to be beneficial to your business. So like I said, very easy to take a hefty ad budget, throw out the wrong things and not end up coming out ahead. And so that's really what we focus on because what we find is that ad strategy is obviously one part just like understanding the platform. Like I said, we've been doing this for a very long time. We've seen the entire evolution of this and then now seeing more like AI enablement coming into the ads platform, which is really interesting. I'm really like there's external developments and like tools. And then there's also like what Amazon's doing themselves. And so they're really exciting and very intriguing things coming out. So we understand that evolution and know what the heck we're doing. But then the second part of it is also understanding the brand's goals, and then translating that into ad strategy. Because if somebody is, say, more focused on, I really just need to pay attention to bottom line, that's top priority, I need high profits. Well, that's probably not going after the new exciting ad types that yes, they're great to add, but we're still testing to see what the ROI is. So the benefit in having a partner like us where we're managing you know, over 35 brands, well, we've seen it all, we've done it all, we can kind of correlate, okay, so this brand's okay to test. And then, like, there's some more innovations that we're doing. In the beginning, we're like, hey, let's test it. And we're like, now rolling it out to all of our accounts, because okay, yeah, we've seen that this works really, really well, most of the time. And so we could be more confident in those tests, right? But so it's understanding kind of the stage the brains in, if you're looking for more aggressive growth, right, you're not going to be happy with a, hey, let's just go after profitability. Let's, you know, kind of try and be very, very careful with everything. Obviously, you're still being careful, but you're probably not running aggressive tests. Somebody's like, hey, I want to grow 25%, 30%, 40%. Right? You're not going to be happy with a really conservative strategy and then vice versa. If you need the conservative strategy to preserve cash flow, there's nothing wrong with that, but you can't be like testing all these crazy things all the time, right? You need a more intentional layered approach. And so it's really, that's what we do is we bring the expertise, but then also I've gotten really, really good at uncovering what it is that brands are looking to do. Oftentimes it sits in the founder's head. Like you're like, when you ask like, hey, what are your goals? You're like, you know, I just want to grow. Okay, grow. Does grow mean 10%? Does growth mean 40%? Like those two things are very, very different. So just uncovering those things, relaying that back into So when you say the client has to pick a plan that really was going to push their business in terms of their expectations. So you kind of lay it out in terms of what's realistic and what's not realistic. So this brings me to my next question. And if a customer comes and say, okay, I want to do this in a year, is there some sort of template that you give them that says, all right, you need to do this in the first three months, you do this in the next few months, and you know, advice, et Yeah, that's a that's a very great question. I would say we definitely have like very customized strategy. I don't believe in like, obviously, you got to have you got to have systems, right? You got to have, okay, this is what we know is the best practice for this specific platform, because every platform has its nuances. Like you can't take a Google ad strategy, translate it over to Meta. You can't take a Meta ad strategy and translate it over to Amazon. Even though Google, you know, say like a pay-per-click, it's still the same thing. Like there's actually practices in Google pay-per-click that will not translate into Amazon ads. Like you'll probably have a little bit less of a learning curve, but like every platform's got its weird quirks. Amazon is no exception. And so you really, it's not, So there's best practices for the platform and like, okay, so these are the things that we've universally tested. And so in these cases we use, you know, these kinds of building blocks, right? You're always going to have that. You should have that if you have any level of expertise. But that being said, having a very templated one size fits all scenario is where we found that oftentimes like As advertisers, you have your tests that you're doing. You're like, okay, so from everything I've experienced with this type of product and this type of market, this should work. And then you do it and you're like. Well, that didn't work in this specific scenario, right? And so what we have found over the years is that like a super rigid and templated strategy like that, like when not everything goes according to plan, which let's be honest, it never does, then you're stuck. So either you have people who just like, We're going to stick to the plan and we're going to hope that eventually it works. Or you have people who are true strategists who could say, okay, this doesn't work, but I have this experience, so let's try this, right? And those tests are always ever moving. And so what we've found is that whenever it's, we want to have a roadmap and we want to have a game plan, but whenever it's say, all right, we got to check this box, we got to check this box, we got to check this box, and then this is going to happen. That always ends up in a scenario where the account manager is like, well, I told the client that I would test this, but I can already tell two days in that it's not going to work. But because I want to make sure that I do what I told the client I'm going to do, I'm going to wait a week or two. And I'm like, Or we just turn it off on day two and we find something else that works as quickly as possible. And so that's really how we work is we'll really work to uncover the goals. And honestly, in the best accounts, goals are set at the account level as well as the product level. Um, so we'll map out goals of, all right, this is what we want to happen with this product. This is a stage. This is what we're working on this product. And then let us map the strategy that gets you there because we can move as quickly as possible. As soon as we find something that works, as soon as we find something that doesn't work. And then what ends up happening is like, we all, we all know where we're going. We're all agreed on what we need to get here. We see a roadblock. If we're noticing that conversion rates are lower on the product, if we're seeing that there's more competition in the market, we thought we can recalibrate, but at least we all know where we're going. And so whatever that journey ends up being to get there, that's what the brand trusts that we have the expertise or we have the experience to help them navigate that along the way. But then we all end up in a place where Great. It's amazing stuff. Is there any unique challenge that you can recall and how you've been able to succeed or Yeah, a really interesting one recently. And again, because we've seen the evolution of the platform. So it used to be that you could set up an ad, you know, providing that the product was indexed for, you know, the search and then Amazon obviously like recognized the correlation of the product with the search. So example would be like, there are certain guardrails and the Amazon ad platforms, you can't like just put a crap ton of money at something and like have socks show up on running shoes, like, cause that's not a good customer experience. Um, so, but providing, you know, you're, you're advertising your socks on the socks keywords, you know, like that kind of good, good platform used to be able to put it up there, put a hefty bid and like immediately, you know, you would start to gain impressions and things were just off the races as soon as possible. Over the last, I would say two years specifically, maybe even three, we've noticed that It's almost a struggle to get Amazon to serve impressions in the beginning. I don't know why. It's kind of like shut up and take my money. Like I'm trying to pay you for something, you're not even letting me. And so we just noticed that there's this real struggle for that, which obviously creates issues if you have a new product and you're launching it and you're trying to like get it up as quickly as possible. So there's a methodology that we developed. We call it like our job start bid optimization. So really we have a very strategic, pretty intense, very hands-on keyboard, like in the weeds, optimization strategy we use for bids to really sort of push for those impressions as quickly as possible. And so that's another thing. It's like, okay, so we're noticing these shifts in the platform. We're really struggling with this potential issue. is there some way that we can try and push for things as quickly as possible? And so, you know, there are some people out there who will, there's a certain optimization called placement percentages. Oh, you know, if I just push for top of search and I do this, and what we found just through all of our testing is bids have way more impact than any other pushes, you know, different bidding strategies, different budgeting strategies, all of it, it really relies on the bids and like, okay, so how can we aggressively test bids without like all of a sudden something pops off and we spent like $500, right? So then we have a budget cap strategy, which we do so that basically in a nutshell, it's like, all right, keep the budgets limited. go more aggressive with the bids, do that really quick succession. And then you have your budget cap to allow for that aggressive testing, which again, without significantly impacting the account. And then as soon as you notice things working, then you Well, that's great. So you basically set the expectation up front and that's, that's, that's really nice. You don't see much companies doing that, you know, they try to sell you the world and then you don't get the world. And, you know, but the expectation up I've had some brands where they, you know, kind of say like, Oh, can you promise me a 40% year over year growth or 50% year over year growth? And my answer has always been like, look, I am not going to BS anyone for a sale. Cause two problems are going to happen. Even if I sold you the sun and the moon and the stars and said, you know, I'd stamp of approval. I can absolutely grow. You're not a problem whatsoever. Right. And then two things are going to happen. One, you're going to come back to me in a month. And you were like, Elizabeth, you told me this is going to happen, which by the way, we're in a month to month with all of our clients. So it's not locking somebody into a 12-month contract and going selling them the sun and the moon. And then when it doesn't happen two months ago, oh, sorry, well, you're locked in. So one, I'm going to have massive churn, which is not good for me as an agency owner. But the second thing is I actually like my team and they're really amazing. So then I have to take the very difficult like goals, bring that back to the team and go, Hey, guys, I need you to figure out a way to grow this brand 200% year over year. And the team's looking at me going like, if I kept handing impossible projects, even as amazing my team is, I wouldn't have the team retention that I have, which again, we have really good team retention, which is helpful for clients as well, because I'm not constantly I mean, It happens, right? Turnover in agencies, that's a thing. Thankfully, we don't have it in terms of the team turnover. So I can have people who have worked with brands, like I have the same account manager on my brands for the last like three, four or five years. And so like, obviously, we know the brands, the you know, we've gotten comfortable working each other, we know what the goals are, the strategies, like, we can have that That swings into my next question. How do you evaluate a That's a fantastic question. Um, so it all starts with us with an ads audit. So we'll go through the account and I tell them like, look, typically speaking, um, I can, again, I've been doing this for a really long time. So I've gotten on calls before, which is hilarious. And like one, one brands like showed me a screenshot of some numbers and they're like, how do I fix this? And I'm like, thinking, am I a wizard? And so I asked them a couple questions and it was asking about their ad show. I was like, okay, so I'm pretty sure you do this, this, this, and this. And then they got back to me like three months, three weeks later. And they're like, Oh yeah. So we tried what you did and it like, this number went down by like four points. And I was like, oh, okay, so maybe I am a wizard. I don't know. But I, it's just, you know, sometimes you can just, again, we know the platform really well. I understand what strategies work, what strategies don't work. So if you told me, okay, so I have this objective and this is the campaign strategy I have for that, be like, eh, no. I know where the disconnects are. But that being said, it is really helpful to do an ads audit. So then it's just looking at gaps. Really, any ad strategy across any platform boils down to two things. What is working really well? How do I do more of it? What is not working well? How do I do less of it? And so our audit is all wrapped around what are the things that are working? What are the next steps based on that? And then what are the things that are not working? And how do we just uncover potential waste? And then between those two things, we can generally have a really good idea. And then it's just looking at what are the KPIs now? What do the KPIs need to be? And where does the growth need to be? And then how big is the gap between where the KPIs are and then where we need to go? So for example, is if a brand comes in and says, okay, I need to double my ROAS and I also wanna grow 30%. Okay, that's a little bit hard. We can backtrack that into, okay, this is what these numbers need to be. This is what these numbers need to be. okay, to make that possible, I need you to fix this. If you can fix this, then that's possible. If you can't fix this, then this is going to be a very extended timeline. Or if we can have a little bit wiggle Great. So basically, I want to dive a little deep here. So when you look at those metrics and those data analysis and you meet with the customer, I'm guessing sometimes it's not only about sales, right? It's based on what was clicked, what was looked at, how long they reviewed the product. Is that metrics that you provide the customer with in order for them to see that the ad is working, we just need to do something else Yeah, that's a fantastic question. So it really boils down to, there's not as much like time, there's sessions, detail page views, so that's how much traffic is getting to the listings. And then there's also obviously the conversion rates on what's happening in the listings and then click the rates. So it's sort of, The way I would view it in terms of like sales growth, we have what I call like Amazon growth equation. You can probably use this for any platform because all it is is like, everyone's like, oh, I want to make more sales, right? But it's like what needs to happen to get there. So there's three things, multiply them together. That's what equals your sales, which is traffic, your conversion rate, and then your average order value. That equals your sales. So then the question is, well, most likely we're not going to push up too hard on the average order value. because we can't price ourselves out of the market. So then the two things left are traffic and conversion rates. Well, on Amazon, your conversion rates are really determined when a shopper lands on your listing. So it's not so much an ad, like typical landing pages, even if you're running Google ads, like you're running it to a specific landing page. On Amazon, you're running it to the listing, which has certain guidelines because it is listed on Amazon. but you can do a lot of optimizations to say like the image stack or there are things to do there. So how that converts really will influence how the advertising converts as well. So the main thing we're looking at is traffic. And then the question is, how expensive is that traffic? And then again, what's our return once you factor in the conversion rates and then the average order value. So that's really the equation that we're looking at is, okay, I mean, you can honestly do the math. If you want X amount of increase in sales, well, then you just reverse engineer what the traffic increase needs to be and then say, okay, what do I need to pay? Does that make sense given the product conversion rate? Normally, it's a sort of a marriage of the two. So we might say like, all right, in terms of conversion rates, I would also, when evaluating conversion rates, want to look at the what the average conversion rates are in the market. Like, are you below median? Are you above median? If you're below, then there's something we can do. If you're already above, is there something you could do? Yes, but you're already converting at a healthy point. And And is there some sort of plan? Like, for example, it's a new product, nobody knows about it. We want to be able to expense that product awareness first, and it's not going to give you this return on investment until we start getting some sales. Yeah, no, that's a fantastic question. So the main thing that we want to find in the beginning as quickly as possible is on what search pages does this product convert well on. Now, again, we understand the platform very well. We really thoroughly understand keyword research. We know how to connect products to the keywords that are going to make sense for that product to tackle first. And then we sort of run that playbook. Now, how many keywords we're going to tackle is actually dependent on budget. I can't tell you how many times I have good friends in the space. Love them. They're amazing. But I'll go and watch like say a YouTube video on like, Hey, you have this product launch strategy, right? And they'll say, Oh, you know, just pick these 50 keywords, 100 keywords. I'm like, what happens if that brand only has a $50 to $100 a day budget for that product launch? versus another brand that says, Okay, I can throw $200 at it because I already have an extensive catalog. I'm already making cash flow, I can afford it. Or the brand new brand that goes, you know what, I've only budgeted 10k for this product. And until that 10k runs out, it has to be cash flowing. So this is like, No scenario is right or wrong. One, it's setting expectations, but two, it's understanding the resources of the brand. If you build out that really limited cash flow scenario launch for a brand that's like, hey, I have budget and these products we've already invested in, we really want to figure out how well do these products convert. We want to get the feedback ASAP. That needs to be a much more aggressive launch than somebody who's like, hey, I have this very limited cashflow run rate and we really need to be conservative here. We need to test this product to the best of our abilities, but I don't have an unlimited cashflow because this is like my first product or my second product, or I'm still in all different scenarios. And so it's really kind of understanding the lay of the land, building that out, and then just making sure that as we get that feedback, it's related to the brain as much as possible. I had somebody ask me on one of, I do a live every single Thursday, I'm like, show up, ask me an Amazon ads question. It's kind of crazy how many I feel, I've been doing it for months now. But someone was like, okay, so how can I be certain of You know, how can I be certain of my product launch? And I was like, honestly, trust me, I have been down the rabbit hole trying to forecast and like any possible and I can build out forecasts, but it's at the end of the day, it's a test. So our goal is to test as smart as possible within the budget that is going to make sense for the brand and then pivot as quickly as possible. And if you have all of those things, then you can have a very successful launch, but two things happen. One, people just throw up stuff again with no determination of how that's going to look in terms of budgets. Well, the second thing is they like throw it up and they're like, okay, I'm just going to wait for the feedback. I'm going to like not touch it for two weeks. And you know, we're in launch phase and we're gathering data. And like, meanwhile, nobody's looking at it. Nobody's saying like, what's the pivot? Is this working? How do we, I mean, making database decisions, a hundred percent believe in it. Do people pivot before they need to because they're scared. Absolutely. But you end up with the other scenario. Like as soon as you do have enough data to be certain on something, you can make a move. And that kind of is very dependent on the product, the scenario. It's not always a like Nice. Let's skip into something else. Is there any specific innovation or project you're currently working on Yeah, very much so. I can talk about internally and then I can talk about externally with the ads. So the one thing that is really interesting, Amazon is pushing more into the AI sphere, which I think is really cool. They're putting a lot of, historically, any ads platform, any products, like understanding the why and the what happened, like, because anyone can go to like, oh, crap, my sales are done. Then it's like, okay, why? Why? What are the determining factors? What is going on? What has been impacted? Is it this product? Is it this product? Like, because you really need to understand that to be able to like, make your moves, right? So they've inside of their sales dashboard and their platform, they've introduced, you know, Some insights that they're actually pulling the product data and saying, OK, so this went up, this went down here, the products that are impacted, which is fantastic. they're introducing some AI searches into their ads platform. So instead of like me as an advertiser, if I'm saying, okay, so ROAS went down, I probably want to look at, I know that's a factor of sales. And I know that's a factor of spend. So I'm going to say, okay, what went up and spend, what went down and spend, you know, like those kinds of questions. I know what to filter for. Well, If you're new, you probably don't. And so you can go in there and type, okay, show me all of the ads that have over XYZ clicks. And you can just type it as a prompt and it will apply filters for you, which is really awesome. Historically, developing ads creatives have been very difficult. Now, sponsored product ads, which is by far the largest ad type on the platform, the only creative involved is, say, listings. less involvement there, but there's a lot of like brand ads, display ads that involve creatives that can be super powerful, but nobody's using them because everyone's like, Oh, great. Now I got to go. I want to run a video ad. And now I got to go get somebody to edit a video for me, right? Amazon is leaning into AI. and AI enablement of video creation, which is amazing. So the one thing that I found really cool about Amazon advertising in general is they've really like, say, democratized access to things that historically have been very difficult to get up and running. So ad creatives, it's difficult to create, democratizing it with AI. You can run streaming video apps, right? Running streaming TV ads. Difficult to get into, right? Really freaking expensive. You can get into them. I forget what the limited ad budget is, but I want to say it was like $200 or something. I mean, like really, really bare bones entry level, which is fantastic. So I'm really excited to see what they do with those developments. Now, internally, again, super interested in how AI can help. The one thing that I found, honestly, notoriously difficult, like, interesting, is that there's a lot of, like, this use of AI for, in the ad space specifically, for, like, data analysis, but then also making decisions, which, to me, I find misaligned, I don't know. The one thing that I find really amazing about AI is the fact that it can mine large data sets. It can go in and very easily look at 20 different things that might have taken me hours before and just be able to surface the things that are important to me or the things that I'm looking at. But going a step further to like make a specific decision based on that data set that it's surfaced, that's where I find it often falls short. I don't know if you've ever been doing. um, like an AI project, where you like, you're going through it, and you're like talking about other things, you're gathering information. And it's you're like, Oh, wow, this is amazing. And you're like, Okay, cool, take this and do this. And then it like, like, wait, this is horrible. We just talked about all this amazing stuff. And you pull out all these insights. And then when you went to the final product, it's like, So AI, it doesn't create like it doesn't have any of the specifics that you pulled out. Like it's very much like that when it comes to like making that final decision. So what we've found is that in stuff we're building internally is Use the AI to speed up your workflow. Use it to mine those large data sets. Use it to sort of ingest and synthesize everything that would take you a very long time to do manually. And then just make it as easy as possible to take that next step as the advertiser. Because there are certain times where you might know, okay, so this particular client, they're really focused on sales growth. Their market has gotten a little bit competitive. Their top competitor lowered their price. And so consequently, our conversion rates are lower. So our ads aren't looking as great over the past few days. Well, two different scenarios. One of them were focused on profits. We probably need to correct as quickly as possible for that. But the second one, we're focused on sales growth. And as I talked in the beginning, Amazon advertising does have direct correlations with your organic ranking. So I know that if I pull back too quickly to adjust for that, it's going to hurt organic rankings. Now, scenario number one, profits are the most important. So I need to pivot quickly. But scenario number two, what sales are the most important. And if I pull back now too heavily, it's going to impact that objective. So those are two, honestly, completely different, same data set, same analysis, same dashboard, two different changes based on that data. Because again, we understand the client, the goals, all of it, honestly, a lot better than AI Fabulous. Can you tell us what your personal hobbies and Yeah, not much. To be honest, I'm a little bit boring. That's kind of by design. So I guess, so I have six children, by the way. I have a very robust home life. I'm busy enough in my home life. So my life typically consists around home and work. We blend that a lot. We also homeschool, which keeps the kids together home, which is really, really nice. So personal hobbies, if I had anything Yeah, I would say normal day today. Um, I like it chill. I like I'm not a fast. My life and work is very fast paced. But in terms of going and doing personal life, it's not very fast paced. Although the kids are growing way too quickly for my liking, personally. Um, yeah, it's just some life I like, um, I do enjoy going to the gym trying to stay healthy. Enjoy my Fabulous. So it brings me to my next question. How do you balance Good question. Um, I would say two things. One is like, I don't know, full integration. So I've probably heard six kids. And if your kids are getting dropped off at school or have a ton of afterschool activities, you're thinking like, oh my gosh, that times six, that is intentional. So homeschooling seems like a lot, but it also kind of simplifies things a little bit easier. Also makes it very easy to interact. So say after this podcast, I'm going to have an extra 10 minutes before my next call, probably walk over, get something for lunch, interact with the kids, say hi, get some hugs, go back to work. So there's a lot of that. It makes it very easy for me to balance that. And then the other thing I think is probably just like, There is balance, but I don't think there's balance all the time. So like there might be one day where I'm like, oh man, I'm gonna work on this project and I'm gonna work a weekend and I'm pretty much just gonna like hone in, you know, work all weekend and that's fine. But then the other weekend, then I'll probably take off and we'll go do something fun. So it's, it's balance in the overall extended averages. And I think there's less Nice. I mean, that's, that's songs. I mean, normally you hear 6Ks and then you'll be scared of what you have to go through, but you seem very balanced as no stress whatsoever. So that's great. Probably a lot of people need to take a page out of your book. So how does, how do you think that your impact or your legacy will Good question. I don't know. I think the less people know about me, even if you are famous, it is surprising the amount of people you are, which I'm not famous. I have people recognize me in certain very small circles, but that's what I think about as far as I'm gonna go. For me, any sort of notoriety, I think I have just because it's my goal to impact my business through that. more people know about you, more potential customers out there. So I'm not really going after notoriety simply for notoriety sake. I think for me, the most interesting thing in legacy is definitely going to be impacts I can have in my specific circles. So like growing this business or trying to get into Amazon ads, there's been a very large learning curve for me. Obviously, I've been doing it a while, so I'm very comfortable in it. My first podcast, I was shaking like a leaf. Oh my gosh, I go back and watch it and cringe. But, you know, the first post you ever put out, you're like, oh my gosh, what was I thinking? That was horrible. But then you live and you learn and you grow along the way. You know, like my first person I hired, I'm like, oh my gosh, he's still with me, so it worked out. But like, I'm like, that was not even a hiring process. That was like one conversation. Yeah, you can do the work, you know, come on in, right? and you live and you learn and you grow. So I guess that's what I would hope my legacy would be, specifically for my kids. We'll see what their interests are, you know, as they grow. I'm not like, oh, you have to go into the family business, you have to do this. I very much would love to be able to support them following their passions wherever that may lead them. But I think there are certain universal truths in like, say, growing and building a team, understanding how to, you know, carry yourself in certain situations, communication skills unlock so many doors, right? So many things that I've had to learn along the way. And I think the coolest thing for me has been me learning those things. And then, um, is then others coming up and asking questions. Oh, how did you do that? Or how do you do this? And there's a lot of times you, you're seeing everyone in front of you and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so far behind. And then you have someone come up behind you and ask like, and you realize like, oh, maybe I know a little bit more than I thought I did, or I at least maybe have something of value to pass on. So I think that for me, in terms of, you know, any sort of legacy would just be, Because I ask questions of people who have done things that I respect and I want to know how did you do it? So I guess for me, it's trying to live a life, personal life, business life, spiritual life, whatever facet of my life that would be, that would be something that would be respectable enough that someone would say, hey, I would be interested to know how you did that. And, you know, then me hopefully passing on whatever, whatever I've learned to cut down somebody else's learning curve, because I've had others do that for me. And Fantastic. I mean, that's wow. I mean, this has been great. Is there anything else specific you would like to highlight to the listeners before Yeah. think specifically, I mean, if anyone needs help with Amazon ads, more than happy to hop on a quick call, just go through, you know, whatever it is you have offered help and support there. And then in terms Yeah, I'll probably reach out to you in terms of that as well, because I have a couple of customers who have tried that. But, you know, we're not the experts in that. So this is great that we've jumped upon you as a business, as an organization. Well, thank you so much. This was fantastic, informative. It's it's been great. I mean, great energy. I mean, I felt it does know that, you know, your company is strong. I love the name. And, you know, we should do this again when you have something else that I would love that. I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me on. It's been wonderful. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode. We sure do appreciate it. 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