Welcome to Retail Checks and Balances, a podcast that takes you behind the scenes of the bustling world of commerce and culinary delights to help you grow your business and win. Join us as we explore the fascinating stories, trends, and challenges that shape the retail and hospitality industry, from cozy corner cafes to sprawling shopping malls and everything in between. And now, here's your host, Kevin Okay, we're back on Retail Checks and Balances and today we have a very awesome guest. His name is Will Haire He's co-founder of Bellavix which is an Amazon and Walmart marketplace advertising agency. That's right. Welcome to the show. Tell us about Belovix. Awesome. Yeah, Kevin, thanks for having me. Yep, we help brands scale on marketplaces like Amazon and Walmart, and we do that through lots of different ways, but mainly through good marketing and advertising, and that's a big piece of what we do. We've been blessed. I mean, I've been doing this as an agency. since two thousand eighteen we moved over half a billion dollars worth of products on amazon we work with some really large sellers and lots of small businesses so i've been really blessed to work with some. Interesting entrepreneurs and sell some cool products and learn a lot along Amazing. Let's break into this. We hear about Amazon and Walmart and we see those ads. Break that down for me. What exactly is that that you're producing for us to click Yeah, I love influencing people's behavior, which makes me an advertiser. So I know people love free stuff, but they hate marketers and we do ruin everything. So I'm sorry ahead of time that you guys get exposed to our ads. But my job is to help influence you to purchase my brand's products. And how we do that is On the very basic level, we do that through pay-per-click advertising. So if you're ever on Amazon or Walmart and you're like, hey, I need a new shirt, or I'm looking for some weight supplements. It's summertime, so we're all trying to look good. So beach towels and sunblock. We use keywords to make sure that your products show up for very relevant search terms. And then on top of that, we also do some programmatic advertising for some of the businesses that are a little bigger. And what that gives me the ability to do as an advertiser is just follow you around on the worldwide web as you're on your devices and streaming TV through connected devices. And so what we do is we kind of piece together These audiences, these cohorts, and we serve them display ads and video ads. And all the goal is for us is to gently remind them that, hey, maybe you were checking out this product, or maybe you were in market for this product. And my job as an advertiser is to get my brands in front You're the guys that, if I go on Amazon and I look at a shoe or something, and then I leave that and I go to my browser to do some work, that ad that pops up saying, oh, that's the same shoe I was looking at. Yeah, that's guilty as charged, and I don't regret it at all. So tell me what's unique about your company that really filters a client to say, I want to work with Belavix. Yeah, it's the expertise. So not only have we sold a ton of products, but we're in the Amazon Service Provider Network as well as the Walmart Solution Provider Network. So we're pre-vetted out by both organizations, but it also means I get access to resources. So when we work with brands and let's just say we're going to do a streaming TV, campaign i'm able to pull in people directly from amazon they're able to get me competitive insights that's not otherwise available to the general public and helps influence kind of. Are creatives and how we do our outreach and what's unique about us with any agency not only like there are lots of qualified agencies that do what i do to be real there. They do good work. They hire great people. We're super niche. I probably hired some of those great people and they moved on to work at other organizations. But what makes us different is we're boutique. It's a family owned business. My wife is my co-founder and way smarter than I am. And so we pride ourselves on customer service and being really organized and being an integrated part of the team. And it's real. Like right now, for example, Bellavix is at capacity. I am turning sales away, which a lot of other agencies I know are struggling to get sales. But we're blessed that we have a really strong attrition rate. And most brands that come to work with us, they'll stay with us for close to three years. So we just We're not trying to be everything to everyone. We're a small business. We're okay being a small business. I get to choose who I work with. I get to work with fun brands. If you're selling something cool and you want to sell more of it, and I think it's cool, let's dance. Fabulous. What are the common misconceptions that people have about what you sell, your services? So misconceptions is like, a lot of times it's just unreasonable expectations. So like if you're a new to market brand, and you think that in the first three months of launching your product with no other advertising efforts that I'm going to get you like a $3 ROAS, that's very challenging unless you're a super niche product. And I will say I've eaten those words before I tell everybody about a plastic color-changing manufacturer. They made like bowls and spoons. And these guys had no marketing because it's plastic bowls and spoons. What brand is that? And I remember getting this account. I'm like, oh, man, this is going to be interesting. And in the first six months, we moved almost a half a million dollars worth of units at a $3 ROAS. And I was like, damn, I'm eating my words there. You know, it's so niche that they were able to really penetrate the market and have strong sales. But for majority of brands, that's not the case. It's a pay to play platform. And so it takes money. It takes investment up front and just being strategic with that investment. So we promote advertising. We do PPC. We do all that other fun stuff. But there are other components that are going to help. drive better sales. So, like, we do a lot of affiliate marketing for our new-to-market brands. And affiliate marketing gives me the ability to work with news outlets. You know, think about, like, your Mashable. If I'm aging myself, hopefully that's still a thing. As well as, like, micro and nano-influencers. And they'll buy the product, they'll create social content. We take that content, we embed it inside your ads, your Amazon assets, like your storefront, your A-plus content. And we are able to get retail-ready listings. And retail-ready listings are simple. It's a listing that's optimized for the search. They have about at least 10 reviews above four stars, and then we're ready to pour some gas on that fire and start investing in pay-per-click advertising. So we kind of We make sure that if we are investing in advertising, we're doing whatever we can to get the listing retail ready. That's going to help us with conversion rates. Ten's a low number. Obviously, if you're selling anti-aging cream like Club Everyone, it's going to take a little more reviews and a little more verification or sorry, a little more social proof that that your product is legit and it's a good product. So it varies, but So if I was to say I'm a new customer, I'm bringing out this new product and I say, well, what's the path to glory? But he's never seen my product before. It's brand new. It's, it's, it's nonexistent, but I want you to make it existence. So tell me that flows into my glory, if Yeah definitely so typically we would start with doing an affiliate marketing program. We're big fans of Stacked Influence but Archer Affiliates, Levanta, Choose Your Poison, they're all out there. And we would enroll your product. We would get some initial sales velocity up on top of that. Search engine optimization is important because it makes your advertising sticky. So when I advertise early on, I want you to index and rank for very relevant, very specific root keywords. So in this case, let's just say it's a garlic press for lack of me coming up with a really good example on the spot. Garlic press is the root keyword because it is a garlic press. But let's just say yours is special. It's stainless steel and it comes in neon colors. Well, I'm trying to rank for garlic press, but I'm looking at all the long tailed keywords that are less competitive, that are still relevant to my product. that we can rank for. And so we'll do the affiliate marketing. We'll get some sales velocity there. We'll optimize your listing and make sure everything on it is kind of relevant to people searching in that category. And then once we have a retail ready listing, we'll start with some pay-per-click ads and you won't have any brand ads. So we'll do a lot of conquesting. So we're going to go after other brands that are selling the product at a higher price point, poor reviews. We're going to look for our competitive advantage. And then split testing is a big part of that. So early on, we're doing cycles of testing your main images, your title, your bullets, using a software called PICFU, which allows us to rapidly test these ideas, and then we put them into play and we test them also through Amazon through the manager experiments. So we're constantly gathering data in those early phases. And then just scale, rinse and repeat, and then try to drive some good return on your investment as you're kind of going through that. And typically, Typically with a brand we launch that is committing 20% spend of whatever the total sales goals is, we can do anywhere from $300,000 to a million dollars in the first year. A lot of it comes down to budget, product market fit, and then what that brand is doing outside of Amazon or Walmart. So there is a component of Do they have a D2C website? Are they doing other marketing initiatives to generate awareness? So it's all part of it. And all of that will spill over because whether you like it or not, customers are going to check Amazon. They're going to check your website. They're going to look for reviews. They're going to make sure you're legit. So if we're on Amazon and you don't have a website, we're not as authentic. If you're on your website, you don't have Amazon, you're less authentic. So it's it's kind of having a balance of both. But as you said, that's an interesting thought that came to my mind. So would you say that the pricing needs to be the same on the direct distribution compared to Amazon or It does. That's a great question. Amazon has the pricing policy. They word it a little different, but if you Google Amazon's pricing policy, it'll probably show up first. But essentially, when you agree to sell on Amazon or Walmart, you agree to match the lowest price found on the internet within reason. They're not going to check eBay. They're not going to check like some of these knockoff websites. They're going to check major outlets. They're going to check your.com, your website. If you're selling on Macy's, if you're selling on big platforms, that's where they're comparing those pricings. And you don't need to be cheaper than it. You just need to match it within reason. So that's kind of the pricing policy you're agreeing to if you agree to sell on Amazon. And there are workarounds. If the margins are tight and you're not interested in selling on Walmart versus D2C, you could differentiate your products through a different UPC, different types of packaging, different volumes and quantities. So there's all types of ways that if you wanted to protect a particular margin on your website versus on Amazon, there are kind of workarounds. But generally for most brands we work with, They're just matching the price across the board. And promotions are OK. If you're running a flash sale on your website for a couple of days, you're not going to get any issues. But if it's a month, for example, Amazon will catch you or Walmart and they'll suppress your listing. So now you won't show up. You lose the buy box. And then in order to get that back, you've got to reduce the price, open some cases, show them that, oops, sorry, I didn't know. We're good. And then they'll, they'll bring it back online. Oh, I didn't know there was some analytics that Make sure that you're doing the right thing. Right. Yeah. And when you moved into my next question, um, Is there a preference based on the customer strategy that you would say, right, I'll put it on Amazon or I'll put it Yeah, so it comes down to resources. What I tell everybody, it's like, I've done a lot of launches and I've been in e-commerce since like 2010, 2011. So like, I've done Shopify, I've done Amazon. So from a professional standpoint, I like to focus on one marketplace. If I only had so much budget, I would probably start with my Shopify because I control everything and retention marketing is important. So I have the ability to get their customers' email addresses and I can do post follow-up email sequences. There's all different ways for me to capture customers and re-engage them. When you're on Amazon and Walmart, you don't own that customer. You know, at the end of the day, once they get that package, and if they turned off receiving messages from Amazon, you know, that's it. They're going to use your product. Hopefully they leave us a good review. And that's the end of the relationship. So a lot of times what we do for some brands, We do this actually pretty often, but like, we'll, we'll launch them on Amazon, but we won't manage it. So we'll, we'll get them set up because we know customers will go back and forth. They can fulfill those orders from their website. So it's not even that big of a deal. And we just get them listed. And then when they have the resources ready, then we'll, we'll dive in and do the Amazon and Walmart. In terms of a revenue perspective, give or take about 50% of e-commerce happens on Amazon. They've done a really good job of making a brand-centric... I mean, dude, my house is littered with Amazon boxes, so I drank the Kool-Aid and my... Yeah, it's there. It's insane. So like, you know, the advantage of going on Amazon first, for example, it's like they're the customer base is there. So you're able to kind of get adoption quicker. And at this point, it's like 60 or 70 percent of product oriented searches start on Amazon. So people are just jumping on Amazon and they're like, you know, what's the best hat to keep sun out of my eyes or something like that? I'm terrible at coming up with these examples, but You catch my drift. I mean, of course, Amazon is just been there. It's a beast. So from Come on. Yeah, exactly. From books to sending people to the moon. It's unreal. So Amazon can do as much more than your website. That's the opportunity. However, it's very competitive. And on your listing, when you click on a listing, everybody else's products are on there. So it's a very competitive marketplace and it's pay to play. There's no way around it. If you want to operate on Amazon and actually have meaningful impact, you have to invest. In terms of Walmart, it's a much smaller platform. The customer journey for a Walmart shopper is order online and pick up in store. So if you don't have a 1P, meaning that Walmart has your products inside of brick and mortar stores, you're not getting preferential treatment. And also keep in mind, you're competing with some big box retailers, you know. The Johnsons and Johnsons, the big brand, so they're competing advertising-wise inside of Walmart because they want to keep their shelf space. So for a third-party seller who's just selling online, doing the consignment model, You can expect to do anywhere between 10 to 20% of what you do on Amazon or your website. So it's just, it's a much smaller opportunity, but the advantage is that if you could scale your sales, it's category dependent, but if you can get seven figures within a year, you do have the opportunity to get in front of buyers, which would give you the opportunity to get inside a brick and mortar Walmart. So when I. position. And when I talk to brands, the opportunity is to get into a 1P relationship with Walmart. And if that's something you're interested in, then that, you know, then you may want to consider being on Walmart. It's just going to take a lot more money to get you to that point just by the nature of how the Walmart shopper journey When you, when you, when you talk about that, you mean like, for example, if I want my product to show up first on the first five, I Yeah. Yeah. Those are sponsored ad spots and it's going to cost you, you know, uh, 79 cents to I've seen clicks upwards of like $40. So it depends how much So when people search, I mean, normally you get like probably 50 items coming back on, on, on Amazon, but people might reach to 50. If your product is 50, then you probably won't get a sale, right? But if your product is probably in the first 10, people just kind of scroll to see what the prices are. Then they choose based on that. Then they look at reviews, I guess. Is that something that you advise your clients on in terms of how they position their products Yeah, and that's what we're looking for too. So when we initially get, let's just say you're selling because launches is different. So now we're selling on Amazon. You're doing 20 to 70k a month, like whatever that is. We're going to look to see like, where are you indexing really well? but where are there opportunities? So we use a software, but it's like, where am I ranking between spots 20 and 50? And I have a good relevancy score. And what that says to me, like if I put some advertising dollars behind that, I know I can rank better. And if there's search volume behind it, then I know I can capture more of those sales. So we're constantly looking for like, how can we rank you? Technically the first page of search, it varies, but it's like position one to 35 is kind of what we consider first page of search results, and the better you can rank within there, the better your chances of actually capturing a sale. And we have a joke we like to tell everybody here at Bellavix, but essentially, the best place to bury a body So let's talk about, you know, have there been any challenges that you've faced and tell us how you overcome those to succeed from Yeah, tons of challenges. A lot of it comes down to like, you know, a pretty typical one is like, what if I sell a premium product? Like, what if I don't want to be the cheapest? And you don't have to be the cheapest, but the marketing and advertising strategy is just going to be much different. So I like to tell a story. A while back, I worked for a company, Lisa Mattress. Lisa mattress is a premium mattress. So if you were to search on Amazon, the medium price people pay for queen size mattress is about $250. Their queen size mattress is like $1,200. So there's quite a pricing discrepancy. But Amazon's algorithm knows that essentially if you sell a mattress at around $200 to$250, the more people are more likely to buy it. So it's a volume game. So when we would advertise Lisa mattress, we would advertise their products, but we knew like queen size mattress, like we're not, our conversion rates were so low. We were just throwing money away. So the strategy for a premium brand, we would constantly conquest brands that were just like us. So instead of bidding on queen-size mattress, I would go after Nectar or Tufts& Needles. Those were the brands that we were very close on price, and we knew that we offered a better solution. And so we would be on their product detail pages. We would remarket to their audiences. So anybody who viewed a Nectar mattress but didn't make a purchase in the last 30 days, they were getting some Lisa mattress ads. And we were trying to acquire those in-market shoppers. So like, and with a premium product, you got to back it up. So like, you know, Lisa gave us high quality videos. They had really good creative assets in terms of like the images and stuff like that. So if you are selling a premium product, have to look at and you have to make it easier for your advertisers to actually sell it. But that's an example of what we get from premium brands. Is Amazon right for me? Do I have to be the cheapest? And you don't. And then that's kind of a strategy. The other thing we see a lot is Some of these brands, there's like aggregators out there, and so they'll, Pattern's a huge one, and they do some great work. But it's an example of like how they work. So what they'll do is they'll say, hey, John, I noticed you sell supplements. We love your supplements. You still own the brand, we're gonna own the Amazon and Walmart. And so they'll buy those products at wholesale, they'll list them underneath their account, and they'll sell them and they'll do some great work. You know like what i noticed with those companies like if your product doesn't have good volume it doesn't get the attention it deserves so we've. Gotten brands from aggregators like that because. They they they're not realizing what that opportunity is and be honest with you they got bigger brands that they're worried about so you know you're just a number. a number to these people. That is what it is. It's their business model. And so the caveat is when you turn over that experience to somebody who's not aligned with the brand, what you'll see in their reviews is you'll see poor shipping. poor customer service experience. And then Amazon has something on the back end called contribution. So once there's a brand registry process, and essentially what you do is you're registering your trademark with Amazon and Walmart, and you're saying, hey, I'm the brand owner. If anybody tries to post anything that is this supplement brand, they can't, they need to come through us, take them down. And you own it and you protect it. But when you give somebody else a rights to that, it screws up the back end of the system. So we take control over some of these brands from some of these aggregators, but we'll lose contribution to some of our listings, usually the top sellers, Murphy's law. And so what happens is I won't be able to change the title or somebody else will be able to update the images. And some people do some pretty terrible things to people when they have control of their listings and they don't end their relationship on a good note. And so you have all these challenges to work around so usually i caution all sellers is like if you don't want to be on amazon you don't want to deal with it that's fine with your products that just don't have any inventory but be aware that. your customers, especially their first experience, they only get that one time. And whether you like it or not, they do shop on Amazon and Walmart. So you do have to be careful who you give the rights to your accounts to and understand that if they're not delivering to your brand's expectations, it'll be seen. And when people check your website and they see your social media ads, and then they go on Amazon to see this terrible experience they So tell me about, you know, people love to hear about innovation and this new buzzword, AI. It used to be RFID some years ago, now it's AI. Tell me how are you embracing these new technologies or how does that differentiate you against It makes us more efficient, to be honest with you. I can do a lot more with less people. We use a couple of AIs because they're baked into our software, so that works how it's going to work. A lot of it's for reporting purposes, and it's great. But in terms of how we use it to have impact on our brands, We're able to do more with less. We're able to get creatives. We're able to do, we're able to optimize quickly in terms of like ad copy and copy on the listings. And it's able to like, especially for large catalogs, cause like we'll get brands that have like, like 1500 SKUs. And in the past, it would take a small army of, of Bellavix employees to go in and just manage a large catalog. It's a, so it's a lot, you know, everyone needs to be optimized and, We're likely not advertising all 1,500, but we're advertising a large part of that catalog. And so AI has just helped us do a lot more with less. So it's been a blessing and a curse, because it's great. But of course, now sellers are using different aspects of it to replace what we do. And so we're innovating our approach and how we do business. And then eventually we'll take over and we'll figure out what that looks like down the Is there any specific project, without naming it of course, that you're excited about, that you're working on and it's bringing Um, yeah. So I, at this point I do a lot of coaching. So like, uh, my, my projects are developing future leaders here at Belovix. So I spend my specifically with the advertising team. Um, I spend a lot of time just, um, Give them feedback on how to ensure it's a good customer experience. Accountability is a big part of my job. So making sure that they're using our task management system, that they're communicating in Slack, that what they say to clients aligns to what we can actually do and that everything that we do is ethical because there are There are service providers that will buy reviews, that will do some crazy things to competitors. And while that's a great way to get ahead in the short term, in the long term, it generally doesn't work out. So we're making sure that we're training our team to our values and also ensuring that they're using tools, they're holding team members accountable, and that we're trying to deliver the best service we possibly can to the brands that give us the privilege to work with them. And they're not a whole bunch. We're not a huge agency. So we really try to make sure we stand out So achieving that customer service excellence is, of course, important to you. And by doing that, you sit with the different clients that you have and take them from the steps to ensure that they're successful, because I'm guessing that you want to make sure that they're successful, whatever you have to grind to do so. So tell me a little about Oh, yeah. Oh, how we hire, honestly, and probably to you, Kevin, because I'm sure you're not a one man, you're definitely not a one man show. It's it's how you hired. We've had a very challenging time finding people who align with that. And so we've incorporated, like how we've been able to get past the personality tester part of it we have we have them i follow an amazon has a book written by a few of their employees called working backwards and they have a philosophy for hiring that's called the bar razor and. The high level, what it means is every person that you hire needs to be better than the last. So you're constantly, as you bring on new people, you're raising the bar, you're raising the expectations, and you're raising the quality of the delivery from our services. And so with that in mind, as we go through the interview process, it is a three- to four-part process. There's testing involved, they audit an account, they deliver that audit to me and my co-founder. We pummel them with questions to make sure that they are who they say they are and they know what they're talking about. Because since AI came on, people can fake it really good, but you can't fake it when you're on a call with me and I have you go into a specific account. So, like, we've taken all those tactics. And it's still not perfect. I mean, I'm still like, not up. 40 to 50% accuracy, but compared to what it was a few years ago, we've learned a lot along the way. And even now, within 30 days of hiring somebody, we got a pretty good instinct if they're going to make the cut. So some of it's just learning on the job. How do you do it, Kevin? I think you mentioned 25 employees. Man, you're managing a small army. Um, not to get too much in your shorts. It's all about, um, as you said, a book, it's about the four E's of leadership by Jack Welch. Oh, it's all about the energy, energizing execution and the edge that you want to have. So if you, if you, if you read that book, it will give you some great insight in terms of how to lead. And it's all about really stepping back and letting people make mistakes and delegation and stuff like that, because you, you can Yeah, nope. I tell my employees, it's Too much wind. Exactly, you're right. Which brings me to my next question in terms of what advice, and so you're talking about coaching, but what advice and tips would you give somebody if they want to do Yeah, I think, so I'd say the first two years of business, I wouldn't say we struggled, but it was definitely really hard. And we just didn't have, you know, I worked at agencies, but I had like a very specific role. So like, when I started Bellavix, it's a lot different, like working on a business than working in a business. And I wasn't 100% prepared for that. We were always profitable, we always did good work, but it was me and my co-founder, we were the only brains and everything was always our problem. And it is what it is. It's what you take when you move and you take ownership like you do as an entrepreneur. And so what really changed the game for us was hiring a coach. We found another agency owner that ran an eight figure agency is just much bigger and i met him through an agency group that i was kind of a part of. And he agreed to take us on he didn't do it full time we were one of three people that he agreed to coach and he ran me through the entrepreneur operating system. We read a lot of Geno Wickman and why we didn't apply all of his philosophies because it's definitely aligned more for a much bigger organization. We got clarity on our mission, our vision, who we serve, who we hire, how we do business, and then how we build processes and get people to take ownership of those processes and that That changed the game. You know, it helped us scale to where we are today. And we still use, we still do annual calls. We still do L10 meetings. Like it, it changed the game. It helped us level up. I'd recommend anybody get I like how you positioned that because that's important. We don't realize how important our significant others are and take a place in our success. And it's great that you guys work together. So, you know, tell me a little about your co-founder. What impact Yeah, she does. So she's client-facing and she's technically like the COO, but she ensures that from an operational perspective, we have SOPs. Everybody follows the SOPs. When there's challenges that the strategists or the delivery team can't figure out, she helps support them, whether she's introducing people from Amazon, because we have relationships, or she's tapping into different networks we're a part of. So she's really the glue. That keeps it together and she also like advertising is a big part of our business but technically it's only twenty five percent of what everything else that goes on so when we do marketplace. Marketing were actually like a full scope agency so we handle. You know everything you can do in the dashboard and her background is e-commerce operation she's she had more of the corporate experience i'd more of the startup world so she's worked at. Major brand she worked in ethan allen high end jewelry stores and she really learned. how e-commerce works, how to merchandise, how to catalog, how to optimize for search, like everything that goes into creating a good customer experience. And she took all that experience and she shares it with the team and she holds them accountable and she makes sure that we're delivering, that we get ahead of client issues before they bring them to us. So she's a huge part of that. I'm the marketing and sales guys. I sell the dream and she lives the nightmare. So it's a That's funny, that's funny. So you Let's step back a bit. Tell me a little bit about your personal interests Yeah, so I got a I got an eight and six year old and I do a lot of dad dad stuff. So like just trying to be really active in my kids life. I come from separated parents. So like I didn't really have a father figure growing up. So I make sure I'm probably a little more overzealous that I should be but I just try to sign them up for sports, and we do lots of activities together. They're eight and six, so they love me. I have friends with teenagers and older kids. I know that timeline is getting shorter, so I'm trying to enjoy it. I like to work out. I go to the gym a lot. I have a puppy who's sitting by my feet right now, so she's my personal trainer. We do a lot of running together. And then I'm an avid reader. I love sci-fi. I've probably read 80% of Stephen King books because I enjoy the way he writes. I just try whatever's interesting. I try to follow and then whatever the kids are keeping up with, I try to just make sure I understand what's going on. We've been watching a lot of Mr. Beast lately, and I understand why he's the largest YouTube star there is, because he's really great at creating content. So just doing No, that's great. I mean, my son plays golf with me now and It is. And then golf is a game that you can play way into your eighties. I met a guy the other day, he was 92 and Wow. That's crazy. And what a healthy hobby, too. You're outside. I notice all golf courses, they tend to be beautiful. It's very serene Yeah, we love it. And I've been to some nice ones in South Carolina, in Charleston. So I haven't picked myself up north yet, but my buddy wants to get me up there sometime soon. We're from North Carolina, let me know. I will, for sure. Do I don't play golf, but I'll go and hang out. I could drive any golf Well, that's great. I like the attitude. How Yeah, that was hard at first. Calendar, we tell our team to update your calendar with your working hours. Being the owner, I mean, I'm not going to beat around the bush. Sometimes I have late nights. It is what it is. Heavy is the head that wears the crown. It just comes with the territory. But generally, when my kids are around, I try not to be on the phone. I generally don't take phone calls during, like, five thirty to eight thirty cuz that's like during the week that's my time of my kids i have clients in australia generally wake up extra early or stay up late to do those types of calls but. just prioritizing, using the calendar, and then just hard lines in the sand. It's hard, but you're like, hey, I'm turning it off. I'm walking away from my phone, and it's family time. Because it's short-lived. You know this, Kevin. It's going to be 10 years. It's going to be 18, and that's it. And I'll get all No, and the thing is that what has made a major change, especially my lifestyle and, you know, traveling for work and stuff, is that the pandemic kind of slowed you down. So then they're seeing you all the time, seeing you all the time, and it's difficult to leave. You know, I don't travel unless I actually really have to. But because of that, you know, I want to make sure I'm here for him and the experiences that you can get with your kids while they're young. I mean, that's super important to anybody who wants to own a business or even be in any sort of sales Will, is there anything else you want to tell the listeners that we Yeah, man, I appreciate it. I think we covered a lot. The last thing I'd say, I'm really active on LinkedIn, so check us out. I have a newsletter I publish weekly. It's Amazon and Walmart news and updates. So it's just like, believe it or not, it updates all the time. So I constantly update sellers on just changes. And outside of that, if anybody's ever looking for Amazon and Walmart support, feel free to reach out. I'm happy to share my insights. A lot of my calls, my sales calls are consultative. So we may not be able to work together, but I'm happy to share insights based on my experience working with brands for You look young enough. Don't worry about it. I'll take it. I'll take it. Well, thank you very much. Well, this has been really educational and informative. And I think the listeners would love what you shared today and Thanks so much for tuning into this episode. We sure do appreciate it. If you haven't done so already, make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you consume podcasts. So we'll get updates as new episodes become available. If you feel so inclined,